Jacobs' Ladder

I felt compelled to enter into a recent debate at a YouTube video with some David Jacobs "supporters"... This was the outcome...

Started around Nov 5, 2015

Alejandro Rojas joins with Ruben Uriarte for the latest UFO news, guest David Jacobs, PhD touches on his new book Walking Among Us, talks about the abduction field, commonalities and later addresses controversy, plus his thoughts on why abductions are happening, and a lot more.

ALL COMMENTS (99)

Alfred Lehmberg 1 month ago

I was a stalwart admirer of David Jacobs until I saw the evidence of his own words... How can good people continue to say they stand on principle when supporting David Jacobs where he is very cleanly (sic) recorded (or readily admits himself on a brand new website), (1), purloining soiled underwear he later reports is not collected for residue testing due to lack of funds and an unwillingness of a scientific body to examine them pro bono, (2), leading his "research" subjects by the nose, recalling them to one another, and polluting the data pool making them known to one another, presumably assuring a consistent personal narrative, (3), suggests to a (by all accounts) healthy subject in a highly suggestible state that she has a dangerously serious psychiatric pathology requiring psychotropic drugs and massive psychiatric care, (4), jettisoning research subjects to their own devices when it has been determined that they are no longer useful in the pursuit of the "doctor's" pecuniary control agenda, (5), thinly threatens research subjects with exposure if they don't play along, (6), does nothing to stem the slanders and character disparagements of his cast-off and protesting subjects by a worldwide audience fanboys and fawners, (7), disingenuously uses Temple University stationery to suggest collegiate legitimacy, (8) suggests his subjects wear medieval torture devices he would provide and (9), can remain to pretend not to acknowledge any of the preceding secure in the fact that he has the uncritical support of the "good people" alluded to at the start?

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Maharajji NKB 3 weeks ago

+Alfred Lehmberg The issue is dead. Jacobs is blameless. The poor woman has psychological issues.

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Alfred Lehmberg 3 weeks ago

+Maharajji NKB Well, Bill and Nancy Birnes, Gary Haden, Jack Brewer, Jeremy Vaeni, Jeff Ritzmann, Whitley Strieber, Tyler Kokjohn and a host of credible others would disagree... especially given a baseless statement such as you've provided, one of insipidity and faith-based argle-bargle and not addressing a single point in the above... which is based on the evidence Jacobs provides himself. I offer you might find another hero, Jacobs is consumed well beyond his expiration date.

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Maharajji NKB 2 weeks ago (edited)

+Alfred Lehmberg

Jacobs addresses each of the points you raised on his own new website. The woman's defamation campaign was not abating. For eight years he had to endure endless onslaughts, cyber stalking, letter writing campaigns, libelous allegations posted to internet chat rooms,....all unchallenged.  He has a right to defend his own integrity.  Those folks you mentioned have lost their credibility if they buy into that woman's crap.

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Alfred Lehmberg 2 weeks ago (edited)

Maharajji NKB Yes, exactly! He admits it himself! Every point! What a marvelous slight of hand. What brazen concealment! He hides his malfeasance in the plainest sight. How is that point lost on you? Moreover, credible people credited are not so easily discredited. There are two earned Ph.D. in that named crowd. His "torment" for eight years is from his ready fan club and credulous supporters who like the idea of head-eating aliens and who don't like their ringmaster threatened by being caught out as a man who, perhaps, treats his research subjects as playthings. But I understand your concern. Every Bill Cosby needs his Camille.

Maharajji NKB 2 weeks ago (edited)+Alfred Lehmberg

This hatred is irrational. The allegations of impropriety have all been debunked.  Your comments show that what you really don't like are the conclusions of the abduction research and you have simply transferred that dislike to the man himself.

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Alfred Lehmberg 2 weeks ago

+Maharajji NKB Ah...! The problem is mine then. I suspect that we would not walk away from this "exchange of ideas" but that that would by the only conclusion possible. I offer you've been Stockholmed, friend. You heard it first here. Happy trials. (sic) You can have the last word.

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Maharajji NKB 2 weeks ago (edited)

+Alfred Lehmberg From Jacobs' new website.... "Some of the more bizarre types of baseless and libelous online attacks that Dr. David M. Jacobs has had to endure over the last few years have been those of Alfred Lehmberg. The vulgarity of Lehmberg's attacks is matched only by his incoherence, and he has been consistently smearing Jacobs' character online, at every given opportunity, for the past few years.".... "As far as hate mail goes, Lehmberg's is amongst the weakest. This is because he is unable to clearly and concisely express himself through writing..."  - Sean Meers  November 1, 2015

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spo616 2 weeks ago

+Alfred Lehmberg You, sir are a well-known liar and nutter, and the commenters here need to know that you are almost as obsessed as Emma Woods in your attempts to discredit Dr. Jacobs. Your reputation as part of the Emma Woods fan base is pretty much established, for those of us that have followed this phony uproar. Get a real life! And btw, you are barely able to put two words together coherently. You're supposed "facts" of what actually happened, are generally totally misleading, ad hominum, soporific - and of course, incorrect. Temple University and the Dept. of Human Services would have censured Jacobs, if there were any merit to Emma Woods' grievances. But they did not do that, when Emma Woods filed complaints with them. Why hasn't she attempted to seek legal recourse, by suing Dr. Jacobs for emotional damages? I am a nurse and a National Guild of Hypnotists certified Consulting Hypnotist, and if her charges had any merit, she would have grounds to seek legal recourse.. Emma Woods, Carol Rainey, you and others are a loud group of bullies, who seem to have nothing better to do than hurl false, despicable and unfounded accusations on 2 men who have tried to serve humanity's best interests in searching out the truth, and helping alien abductees. My opinion? Your gang of idiots are an inept part of the usual UFO disinfo campaign. You scream loud and often, hoping to stop critical thinking and analysis by the public, about the hard truths revealed by Jacobs' and Hopkins' difficult and thoroughly credible research..

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Maharajji NKB 2 weeks ago

+spo616 AMEN !!!

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spo616 2 weeks ago

+Maharajji NKB Thanks- and I'm glad I helped support your excellent comments! :) Goodness gracious, but EW herself seems to be providing us with some striking corroboration of our opinions of her character and motivations, by trolling these venues, where opinions about her case are discussed. It has long been known that she does this, by commenting at length with her tiresome list of nonsense grievances. I'm going to pass on her attempt to draw me into feeding her obsession. I think Jacobs' website is going to quash this completely. So far, his published transcripts and recordings of the hypnosis sessions give support to his position. They are at present, and I suspect, will be, utterly damning to her and her supporters. OK, I'm done.. I have a life to get back to! ;)

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Maharajji NKB 2 weeks ago (edited)

+Emma Woods I couldn't resist making a few comments. The MPD, chastity belt, underwear issues have all been addressed in detail.  When are you going to let this go? Of course he was going to try to get you to forget some hypnotic suggestions,. so that your hybrid friends could not read your mind and punish you.  Oh, but now you are denying that those things are/were happening?  Did you ever consider that your obsession to destroy Dr. Jacobs' reputation could have been hypnotically implanted in your mind by your alien/hybrid friends?  Why don't you go after them instead? "You might also consider listening to Jacobs' recent interview on the Paracast show,.."  It shows that you are still stalking...still obsessed. "..where he talks about trying to install a hidden camera to film a female research subjects' bedroom without her knowledge, and his complete lack of shame about it.." What shame?  There is no shame, and no call for shame. The need for keeping it a secret from the abductee is completely obvious...Not out of some deviant, sex pervert motive as you imply, but in an attempt to prevent the aliens from finding out about it.  Previous efforts to catch the aliens in the act by placing a camera in the bedroom all failed because the abductees themselves, knowing that the camera was there, would switch it off or defeat it one way or another. Just like spo616, I too have more important things to consider for now. I don't have the time to be drawn into this melodrama.

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Alfred Lehmberg 2 weeks ago

+Maharajji NKB Good Christ pardner... listen to yourself!

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spo616 2 weeks ago

+Maharajji NKB Very well put, and as a certified consulting hypnotist, I can attest to the validity of your points. Negative hallucination (getting a subject to remove a 'fact' from their conscious mind) would be a totally acceptable way to attempt to confound the hybrids. More and more, I am coming to believe, as you suggest, that EW and the other Jacobs/Hopkins detractors and defamers, may be puppets used by the aliens and hybrids, to discredit the terribly frightening info, that credible abduction researchers, are exposing. To kill them might give weight to their revelations, but ruining their reputations would make them seem utterly bogus.. But we can probably never be sure either way, because EW and Carol Rainey, and their supporters, behave in completely dysfunctional ways.. They could be mentally disturbed (that's how it appears) but the cause of that, is up in the air as to whether it's coming from them, or the aliens. If Jacobs and Hopkins are guilty of anything, it is that they had too much compassion for their abductee group and the fate of humanity. They struggled mightily to find ways to mount ingenious ways to fight back against the abuse and atrocities being done to the abductees. Their concern for the fate of humanity has brought them nothing but grief. How sad for them and how utterly devastating for all of us. Nice to have made you acquaintance here. It helps to know that there are others who have fully appreciated the enormity of this issue.. Best to you, as we get back to our lives, while we still have them. :'(

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Alfred Lehmberg 1 week ago

Thoughts on the fidelity of David Jacobs... https://jayvay.wordpress.com/2015/11/06/is-supporting-david-jacobs-a-moral-question/

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bryce nemehia 1 week ago

+Alfred Lehmberg  

OOh Alfred, would you SHUT the FUCK up already!?? YOU are clearly insane & blowing that WAAAYYY out of proportion. You & Emma Woods are two peas in a pod. BOTH of you need to go back on you rmeds (or do everyone a favor, & go get hit by a bus)

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bryce nemehia 1 week ago

+Maharajji NKB AGREED! Alfred is a fucking nutter

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Alfred Lehmberg 1 week ago

+bryce nemehia Thanks... that's helpful and it extends the discussion. It doesn't do much to validate your argument or defend your position: That a dilettante history teacher propounding a moronic science fiction story for which he provides no evidence, other than the abuse of his well-led research subjects, should be carried around on a velvet cushion by his dazzled devotees and lauded as the alien abductee's second coming after Mr. Hopkins... ...be celebrated as heir apparent to Mr. Hopkins.  We'll forget for a moment that "first comer" Hopkins shows significant, if salacious, problems of his own... ...You know, I may be a "nutter." That I'm a "well-known liar" is just not supported anywhere. I'll keep my eyes peeled for buses, though, and thanks.

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Mr Aweezy 5 days ago

+spo616 but what did he mean when he said that bill birnes would disagree with the fact that jacobs is credible?

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spo616 5 days ago

+Mr Aweezy - Bill Birnes published articles, by Lehmberg and Jeremy Vaeni in UFO Magazine, when he & his wife were the editors. Birnes also did a 'Publisher's Note' on their articles, and the controversy, that questioned the methodology of hypnosis and to some extent, Jacobs. You can find that online in a google search. However, you should bear in mind that there have been certainly some legitimate concerns about Birnes' authenticity, reliability, honesty and bias, regarding the whole UFO issue, especially, as to whether or not he, to some extent, muddies the waters, creating doubt, especially in some UFO Hunters' shows. Remember, you do not rise to the level of having a commercially successful TV show, that will truthfully inform the public about controversial issues our government does NOT want the public to critically analyze. There have been many questions about Birnes, and whether or not, he is totally objective and an honest broker of UFO info - or just another good disinfo agent. And of course, Birnes himself, has said that he was censored multiple times by the SyFy channel, and that the most important hardcore information was edited our of the show, because it was 'too controversial'! There is nothing wrong with someone having a critical opinion of Jacobs - but that criticism should not rise to the level of a 'witch-hunt' containing multiple misrepresentations, and inaccuracies, which Lehmberg & Vaeni and EW, have been, non-stop, spreading.

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Mr Aweezy 5 days ago 

+spo616 

its not like i take birnes' word as gospel; he's definitely too far into left field for someone of my skeptical mindset, however that being said i never took him for a disinfo agent i just thought he was really, really passionate about this stuff. but now that i think about it it is possible. it's not like he's been interested in UFOs all his life, i heard himself say in an audio interview that he only got into the subject via his publishers or something to that effect. but you can't believe what he says about sy fy editing out stuff if you believe he's a disinfo agent. do you think he is?

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spo616 5 days ago

+Mr Aweezy I think this stuff goes way deeper than we realize. I don't really know who is legit or not, but I am very skeptical of people, who the networks, including cable, publicize because I believe it is way too easy to control their content, whether or not they are honest brokers, or just trying to explore fringe/controversial topics. They themselves may not even realize how easy it is to skew their programs' evidence and content. If you are interested in Birnes' background, explore what the former editor of UFO Magazine has to say about him. I'm talking about the former cop, Don Ecker, who I tend to believe is an honest broker, but a little crazy, but still, pretty interested in solid evidence of this stuff.. The less a researcher is a "media-star" - the more credible I feel they are, but still, it doesn't hurt to take it all in - time permitting - and then, I try to do my own research and my own thinking, and considering.. ;)

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Alfred Lehmberg 5 days ago

+spo616 Stuff and nonsense. I keep "spreading" the facts because the facts do not change. The moral gymnastics necessary to accommodate chastity belts, hypnotic suggestions for serious mental disease—the nine points above—are unsettlingly incredible. Sincerely, listen to yourself. This is not the abduction phenomena outlined by Whitley Strieber and John Mack and significant others. This is a whole cloth science fiction fable contrived for the self-actualization of one man at its unsupported center. For a cited contrary view unencumbered with unsupported hero-worship the principal incurs in a seeming cult of psychopathic personality, see the attached link:   http://www.amazon.com/Greys-Have-Been-Framed-Exploitation/dp/1519579616/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1450540404&sr=8-6&keywords=jack+brewer Additionally, Don Ecker apes a canted bully-slanderer likely behind Donald Trump who only wishes he was Bill Birnes, a world class author of dozens of key books, a holder of an earned Ph.D. in History and a degree in law, plus a subject matter expert in numerous documentary films. I offer Ecker's criticism of Birnes has a greenish tinge of a climaxed jungle, is a morass of professional jealousy, and finally beneath concern, consideration, and utter contempt.

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Mr Aweezy 5 days ago

+Alfred Lehmberg birnes' education and titles are irrelevant. of course a disinfo agent wouldn't be a fucking retard.

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Alfred Lehmberg 5 days ago (edited)

+Mr Aweezy No sir, they are entirely relevant to Mr Ecker, who would be Mr Birnes when he grows up, eh? Moreover, the accusation of disinfo agent may have come to be the last refuge for the person crippled with cognitive dissonance or enduring a shattered world-view and not an observation of fact.

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Alfred Lehmberg 4 days ago (edited)

And there's this, too, at: http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2013/09/youre-getting-sleepy-and-misled.html?showComment=1450486290561#c4132477417294307534 Judy JaafarDecember 18, 2015 at 7:51 PMHello Jack. Just came upon your blog whilst searching for something else. I believe that David Jacobs and Budd Hopkins have done untold harm to thousands of Americans. Some years ago I met Budd at a UK conference and a select few, including Nick Pope and myself, had retired to the bar. I had been appalled at the things Budd had been saying in his lecture, so decided to ask him, in a polite and friendly manner, about his hypnosis qualifications, his basic understanding of the subject and what protocols he used to ensure the safety of his "clients". He flustered, then blustered then told me that he deliberately introduced red herrings into his questioning, things that were not part of the "official" abduction scenario, and if the client agreed to this spurious element then he knew they were lying. It was breathtaking in its foolishness, by patently leading the witness into describing something they thought Hopkins wanted to hear. He had no conception of the strength of compliance of someone under hypnosis - that's why it works so well as a psychological therapy (not an investigative tool). When I challenged him on this, and other things, he jumped up and stormed out of the room. Nick was furious with me for upsetting the master of abduction research. I was equally furious that people like Hopkins and Jacobs were getting away with this in pursuit, not of the truth but some other agenda. I have no wish to speak ill of the dead, but to be honest, I'm glad he is no longer practising such chicanery. Sadly he spawned many acolytes. Bufora has been called in several times for damage limitation after regression hypnosis and I was even asked by one woman if I could hypnotise her to forget what she came up with in a previous session by an unqualified researcher. One family were in constant fear as they had been told the aliens would be back, and the next time it would be for their children too!  Disgraceful.

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Maharajji NKB 4 days ago (edited)

+Alfred Lehmberg

Oh shut up.  Dr. Jacobs' future book concerning the proper use of hypnosis in abduction research,. wisdom gained over several decades of 'on the job training', learning from mistakes, will become a textbook resource for future generations of researchers, while your negative blogs will have been forgotten. Jacobs' conclusions may sound like science fiction to you, but, unfortunately, the preponderance of the evidence suggests that he is right, and that you are wrong.

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Mr Aweezy 4 days ago

+Alfred Lehmberg i have no clue what you're talking about.

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Alfred Lehmberg 4 days ago (edited)

+Mr Aweezy Yeah... I get that a lot... but only from persons who find me contrary to their inconsistent fables and toxic myths and never from persons for whom my writing performs a service, eh? Thanks for playing. +Maharajji NKB What. Evidence? Evidence is not a string of baseless non sequiturs, facile ad hominem, manufactured storylines, butchered logic, or a coterie of braying, so butt-hurt, supporters who don't want to redo work thought done. What "evidence" is there beyond your embarrassed and hopelessly juvenile hero worship, fulsome misstatements of irresponsible exuberance, and "in the tank" paranormal argle-bargle? Again, this is not the abduction conundrum of Strieber and Mack and a host of credible others who seem to be, themselves, avoiding accusations of pillowy non-science, gross illogic, and research subject abuse. Sincerely, Sir or Madam, but it might be you to stuff a mossy sock in it, eh?

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Mr Aweezy 4 days ago

+Alfred Lehmberg strieber is not credible. thats basically the only thing i read because you're trying really too hard to make yourself come across as intelligent. the UFO question has possibly 2 answers and we need not worry about all this crazy abduction crap (even if it is true, what can we do about it? zilch, zip, nothing). the thing to realize is that UFOs are either some governments craft, or they're extraterrestrial. let's focus on that fact before we debate about dr. jacobs alleged horny gross behavior. 

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Alfred Lehmberg 4 days ago

+Mr Aweezy ...Beyond clumsy insult and more uninspired nonsequitur, you only achieve to make an already muddy argument even muddier, eh? As a summa cum laude college graduate, a retired military aviator and combat vet, and former commandant of key officer training schools, I find little difficulty in coming across as "intelligent," eh? Hold your insults for those wounded by them and try to understand that the toxic effect of one man with reported and well documented "horny gross behavior" issues might do the irreparable harm to the studies and researches you would, and inexplicably, attribute to persons like myself. Hope this helps.

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Mr Aweezy 4 days ago

+Alfred Lehmberg you misunderstand. i was not insulting you. saying someone is trying too hard to come across as intelligent is NOT an insult unless you perceive it that way. it's just my attempt at helpful criticism. you failed to take away the most important part of my comment: who cares about dr. jacobs? the important thing is that the field of UFO study should only be concerned with two things: UFOs are real, and they're either ours or they're not. that's the starting point, thats what intelligent persons need to realize. in the long run, even if jacobs is guilty, it will NOT harm the UFOlogy movement. instead of wasting your efforts on trying to condemn jacobs, use that time to research cases that warrant investigation. i really have no intention of insulting anyone. 

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Alfred Lehmberg 3 days ago

+Mr Aweezy No, you miss the point, Sir, and you're are being disingenuous, too. An accusation that one is feigning intelligence to appear intelligent is the soul of insult. Moreover, Jacobs is important because he may be hurting people psychologically, and hurting them irreparably. The subject of UFOs is beside the point. How can that be lost on you? A history teacher implanting well-admitted suggestions that their subject has a serious mental illness is beyond the pale and wholly unconscionable. I'm amazed people gloss over that.

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Mr Aweezy 3 days ago

+Alfred Lehmberg i never said you were "feigning intelligence" i think you probably have a notable IQ. i said you were trying too hard to come across as intelligent. i do that myself at times, we all do. relax. and sure if jacobs is guilty he should be ashamed and locked up for a little bit. but seriously...no point in obsessing over it. let's talk about the Hudson Valley flap or the phoenix lights. much more interesting.

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Maharajji NKB 3 days ago (edited)

+Alfred Lehmberg " Evidence is not a string of baseless non sequiturs, facile ad hominem, manufactured storylines, butchered logic, or a coterie of braying, so butt-hurt, supporters who don't want to redo work thought done.." That's the point. The storyline, as suggested by the attestation of many independent witnesses, is NOT non-sequiter, but follows a very logical sequence, towards a logical conclusion. People are entitled to cultivate their own opinions and to draw their own conclusions. Hopkins and Jacobs avoided Strieber and Mack for various reasons. Strieber and Mack tried to read transformational, spiritual significance into the encounters, perhaps suggesting meanings that weren't really there.

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Alfred Lehmberg 3 days ago

+Mr Aweezy People getting hurt for the questionable agenda of others... what part of that fails to reach you, and we really are in the wrong thread to be talking about anything else...

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Alfred Lehmberg 3 days ago (edited)

+Maharajji NKB "That's the point, the storyline, as suggested by the attestation of many independent witnesses, is NOT non-sequiter, but follows a very logical sequence, towards a logical conclusion." Mmmmmmno. Point two from the above... He is, and very clearly, leading his research subjects by the nose, recalling them to one another, and polluting the data pool making them known to one another... this is not logical sequence this is a contrived narrative to suit unstated and so suspicious ends. "People are entitled to cultivate their own opinions and to draw their own conclusions. Hopkins and Jacobs avoided Strieber and Mack for various reasons. Strieber and Mack tried to read transformational, spiritual significance into the encounters, perhaps suggesting meanings that weren't really there." To a degree, the dilettantes and dabblers discount the experts to celebrate fearful and destructive narratives filled with terror and nameless dread of Messrs Hopkins and Jacobs... for the comparatively hopeful and constructive narratives of Strieber and Mack. Potential Optimism preferred over an unsupported pessimism. What's happened to your humanity?

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Maharajji NKB 3 days ago (edited)

+Alfred Lehmberg You simply refuse to believe that advanced alien beings could indeed be this outrageous.  Where in universal law does it say that the truth can not be strange?  The aliens, simply, are aliens...The awareness of a human being is a strange alien world to them.  The evidence suggests that the Mantis beings are attempting to bridge the gap between the species by way of a clandestine hybridization program.  We don't know why this is being done. Jacobs believes that the gray aliens are themselves a mix of different genetic materials. Basically, an effort was made to engineer and clone a workforce of small humanoid creatures, close enough in physiology to human beings (with two legs, a torso, a head, two arms, hands, fingers, etc.) so that they could interact with the abductees with greater ease, but at the same time, producing creatures possessing a far superior neurological prowess (mind control abilities),..so that an average human is no match.

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Alfred Lehmberg 3 days ago

+Maharajji NKB I observe, Sir, that you simply refuse to believe that David Jacobs can be that outrageous even as he admits such in his own words... and that you make all my arguments for me. I further point out that Terence McKenna remarked that he thought Budd Hopkins was a credulous loon. One wonders how he would have assessed David Jacobs.

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Maharajji NKB 3 days ago

+Alfred Lehmberg Jacobs never admits to any such nonsense. Is McKenna a certified prophet of ufology, such that his opinion is considered almost a divine revelation?

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Alfred Lehmberg 3 days ago (edited)

+Maharajji NKB Your question suggests you may already know an answer. I certainly don't, though McKenna did have an ironic reputation for hard-nosed incisiveness. Is it Jacobs the certified prophet? I mean he must be, eh?   Recorded performing malfeasance first person, then admitting the facts of those recordings on radio programs with George Norry and George Knapp, fully iterating them again, later, on a brand new website so deftly spun for his book roll out... so still carried around on a velvet cushion by his throng of credulous if adoring acolytes. The fundies would be calling him freakin' Jesus, but he's Mohammad and the mountains moved to him! What sorcery is this!   That I once was in such thrall of this man myself, Hopkins too, and it would seem... like you! I submit that an important lesson can be derived from these wholly questionable circumstances.

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Alfred Lehmberg 3 days ago

You know, it occurs to me that the dismissal and censure of David Jacobs for, at best, questionable behavior—based on facts he admits himself—in no way invalidates the otherwise if ephemerally supported abduction phenomena, UFOs extant, or a reality of intelligent life, not us, in the here and now.All those fractal wheels keep turning 'round apart from Hopkins and Jacobs and with decidedly less of a wobble, more hope and optimism... less afraid of the terrors and nameless dreads prosecuting insidious invasions in no way established as the remotest fact or truth but remaining self-fulfilling prophecies woven from the whole cloth of self-involved narcissism, perhaps even outright psychopathy, or both. The search continues for what Hopkins and Jacobs only intimated and intimated badly given its leavening of fear and loathing, promotions of hatred for the unknown, though yet to reveal any purpose but UFOs occasional manifestations of themselves, and how that causes people to act in the aftermath.

UFOs continue to have relevance and a rationality for the person cognizant of seven categories of evidence and honest with themselves. Hopkins' and Jacobs' dismissal and censure are, beyond facts they whittled out themselves to then be used in the prosecutions of their own questionable agendas—creating their turbid narratives of desperation and doom—in my opinion, no great loss.

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Maharajji NKB 2 days ago

+Alfred Lehmberg

Jacobs has never been dismissed from anywhere except your little circle of nay-sayers and malcontents. Future generations of researchers will build upon the foundations that Hopkins and Jacobs have laid.

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Mr Aweezy 2 days ago

+Maharajji NKB you're wasting your time with this guy. he's as obsessed with jacobs as that nutter chick

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Alfred Lehmberg 2 days ago

That circle seems to be growing, one, and two, wheezy can't seem to appreciate an irony. Time's wasted indeed.

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Mr Aweezy 2 days ago

+Alfred Lehmberg "wheezy can't seem to appreciate an irony." that makes no grammatical sense. Also, it's "Weezy". i've tried to be cordial with you but you're only interested in your own weird agenda. have a very nice day/night/life.

 

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Alfred Lehmberg 2 days ago

+Mr Aweezy My Agenda? Rofl. Sorry wheez, I'm just not one to roll over for glib psychopathy, double down dogmatism, gross irrationality, gloom and doom where there is and has been zero justification for same, and credulous fanboys. Expect no apologies from me, eh?

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Mr Aweezy 2 days ago

+Alfred Lehmberg *weez. i don't want an apology as you have not offended me. im just sorry that someone as seemingly passionate as you is so fixated on one topic. i've asked you to discuss others but you refuse due to the nature of this thread, but that's irrelevant at this point as we've been commenting back and forth for like a week. i'd love to hear your ideas on topics OTHER than jacobs, but you seem not to have any other opinions. 

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Alfred Lehmberg 2 days ago (edited)

+Mr Aweezy ...Well, a thread topic is a thread topic and shouldn't ordinarily descend to "brownie recipes," eh? Truly interested in other thoughts entertained on other subjects? Here's my Public facebook page and blog site: https://www.facebook.com/alfred.lehmberg http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/ Bring a lunch and have a dictionary cued up on your desktop, eh?

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Maharajji NKB 2 days ago (edited)+Alfred Lehmberg The tenets of the 'I hate Jacobs' club are lame and unfounded. You keep railing about chastity belts and underwear. What would you have suggested, given the same set of circumstances? The woman's own frantic testimony indicated that the hybrid beings were taking advantage of her sexually. In essence, the poor woman was a victim of repeated rape,. serious criminal acts. But you can't go to the police. Imagine the scene at the police station. "My assailants are not really human. They are a mix of human and alien. They can control my mind and cause me to forget everything that happens. I'm not sure what happened, but something happened."    'Sure, lady. Fill out this form and sign here.'

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Maharajji NKB 2 days ago

+Mr Aweezy He's a hopeless obsessive? Yes, I know. But this venomous, anti-Jacobs rhetoric needs to be refuted wherever it pops up.

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Alfred Lehmberg 1 day ago

+Maharajji NKB █_Æ£_█ Answered point for point: "The tenets of the 'I hate Jacobs' club are lame and unfounded."  . █_Æ£_█ The so-called "tenets" are wholly founded, provoked as a result recorded fact, and effusively admitted by the principal. I don't hate Jacobs so much. I hate the blithe toleration of abused research subjects so much more. . "You keep railing about chastity belts and underwear. What would you have suggested given the same set of circumstances?"  . █_Æ£_█ Well, I would have questioned an alien invader's inability to defeat a cheap pig-metal lock, I would still have a collection of researchable soiled undergarments dated and sealed for later evaluation, and then I'd remember there can be no excuse beyond incompetence or craven psychopathy for a history teacher hypnotically suggesting to another "in their care" that they have serious mental pathology. Does that seem rational? . "The woman's own frantic testimony indicated that the hybrid beings were taking advantage of her sexually." . █_Æ£_█ Nonsense. She was led down that path in contact with other Subjects introduced by Jacobs, and by the good "Doctor" himself... ...on tape! Seriously, it's that plain! . "In essence, the poor woman was a victim of repeated rape, serious criminal acts."  . █_Æ£_█ We agree here! It is my opinion, based on my observation of the facts, that David Jacobs perpetrated that rape, and that is was psychological. I offer that he might be arrested and charged. You would if it was wife, daughter, or mother, eh? . "But you can't go to the police."  ' █_Æ£_█ Of course, she can! One wonder that she has. Or, perhaps some kind of civil action? We shall see. . "Imagine the scene at the police station. 'My assailants are not really human. They are a mix of human and alien.'  . █_Æ£_█ Who put those thoughts in her mind, actually, at the start, and where did they go when Ms. Woods parted company from Mr. Jacobs... ...I wonder, would your preceding be the report, or would it be more like: 'I came to this man for night terror and sleep issues and here is what he did to me that he admits himself.' . " 'They can control my mind and cause me to forget everything that happens. I'm not sure what happened, but something happened.  'Sure, lady. Fill out this form and sign here.' " . █_Æ£_█ You make the remainder of your point an argument from the absurd, and your own conjecture. Would that you could have evidence of innocence as plain as the evidence of guilt, eh? Next.

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Alfred Lehmberg 1 day ago (edited)

+Maharajji NKB Pot to kettle, eh? My "obsessiveness" seems to be trumped by your own. Moreover, I offer that this pro-Jacobs rhetoric needs to be refuted (wacka-moled) wherever it pops up. You've no support for your pathetic argument but the spin of your "Church father." Dump him and read on. Do You want citation and relevance for REAL UFOs? Read Friedman, Dolan, Hastings and Feschino. These are men making their report not from the center of a questionable thematic web. Next.

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Maharajji NKB 1 day ago (edited)

+Alfred Lehmberg So, basically, you're insisting that the whole alien/hybrid thing is just not happening.  It was a fantasy that came out of the minds of folks like Hopkins and Jacobs. They unwittingly led their research subjects into believing these things. Thank God it was all a mistake and that we have you and a few others as the final authority to set us straight.  Nothing to see here folks.  It was a false alarm.  The are no aliens making hybrids. There is no invasion.  Case closed.  We figured it out.  Go back to your lives.  Everything is okay. Sorry, it just doesn't fly. " I came to this man for night terror and sleep issues and here is what he did to me that he admits himself. " The poor woman didn't approach Hopkins and Jacobs for problems with night terror. She knew full well that they were researching abduction cases.  Her own therapist recommended that she go to them.  I wonder what he would have to say about these things. Hopkins didn't want to deal with the woman because she vibed liked a nut case from the get go. But Jacobs was more compassionate, perhaps too naive, and he tried to help her.  It's the crime of the century. Even if she could press charges and seek relief for 'malfeasance',.. legally, the signed consent form is probably the most damaging evidence against her case.

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Alfred Lehmberg 1 day ago (edited)

+Maharajji NKB Rofl! I think it comes down to: are you going to believe Hopkins/Jacobs or your own lying eyes and ears. See, Hopkins big three cases Copley Woods, Napolitano, and Jim Mortellaro are are actually juvenile initiatives shot through with errors of Judgement and observation and yes, science.  Maybe expired artists and history teachers with seeming ethics and morality issues are not the best choices to spearhead an unsupervised research with live subjects. Biological Invasions, hybrids (hubrids?) sending instant messages and unable to defeat pig-metal locks, not happening? Smarter money would say, "not happening."  I wouldn't bet any more money on it, myself.   Later on, now, would come evidence of Hopkins' own cheezy philandering which is described as extreme, psychopathic, and nasty.  When Jacobs behavior was subsequently revealed (in his own words, remember!) Hopkins stood four-square behind him. Still, I sailed into the evidence arrayed against Jacobs with every expectation to vindicate him.  I was humiliated to find out that that was not going to be possible.  Mea Culpa was required!   I was in at the ground floor with Mortellaro mentioned above.  Rooked in I tried to substantiate him, myself. We even formed an association. I was a believer. Here's that story: http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-mortellaro-affair.html It didn't pan out.  Closer to the bone and seeing the rot earlier I dumped Mortellaro before Hopkins did.  I didn't blame Hopkins, and should have.  No, even as there is something behind UFOs and close encounters and team "HopJac" had potentially tweezed some details of "something," their gloom and doom end times philosophy of social  takeover and physical rape is in no way substantiated beyond their own efforts of selling same!   Their memory and current research appear to be an obstacle to real progress on issues spanning space and time and ineffable "others," and I must resent, reject, and revile them for that.  If you could see passed your baseless hero worship and grok forest for trees?  You might resent, reject and revile him yourself.  Not holding my breath over here, pardner... but prepare yourself for discovering, as I did, that pride does go before the fall.  Good luck with that.  Cue up a mea culpa of your own.  I offer that you're going to need it.

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Alfred Lehmberg 1 day ago (edited)

I sense your trepidation, stranger... I felt the same, eh? There are reasons alluded to as regards that trepidation, such as they are, for the "facilitation of denial," also alluded to above. These include (1) a reflexive fear of the unknown, (2) reactionary knee-jerk rejections of even constructive change, (3) overly conservative concerns regarding the invalidation of previously held but now justifiably challenged faiths or mores, or (4), just not wanting to re-do work thought done. On the whole: not the bravest of "reasons," eh? Yeah... ET would change everything, but given the current state of affairs that might not be a bad thing. Wouldn't it unite us at the least?  Division is easily achieved a function of fear and loathing.  It's synergy that is hard.  You can't, or shouldn't, synergize from a negative is my feeling.  That's what has happened, by way of example, with the current Republican Party.  That way lies madness. One can't forever throw good money after bad.

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Maharajji NKB 21 hours ago

+Alfred Lehmberg So, Hopkins and Jacobs got it all wrong, huh? They didn't know what they were doing with this hypnosis stuff? Perhaps you would have preferred that folks like Barbara Lamb or maybe the late Dolores Cannon led the effort. There isn't an alien encounter story that Lamb doesn't like.. the good, the bad, the ugly, and the completely absurd. Or maybe you like Cannon's 'quantum healing hypnosis'. With her techniques, you can conduct interviews with the aliens, all while the client is under hypnosis. Jacobs almost fell out of his chair when an interviewer asked him about this.

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Alfred Lehmberg 21 hours ago

+Maharajji NKB  Har! What have they gotten right? See... all this has nothing to do with anything. All pointless dodge and wiggle. This is not a comparison of conflicting techniques or a comparison of paranormal personalities. This is about one man abusing his research subjects... abuse he is recorded doing and admits himself. I guess you really have been Stockholmed. If you don't have anything beyond the hapless celebration of seeming psychopaths and doubling down on your cognitive dissonance? We're 'bout done, eh?

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Maharajji NKB 17 hours ago

+Alfred Lehmberg

Let's hope we're done.  You are like a broken record, continually repeating the same tortured and refuted talking points.  There is no abuse. There was no abuse. Yes, mistakes were made as you would expect, but certainly not out of malice or some deviant psychopathy as you suggest.  Like so many others, I find Hopkins' and Jacobs' research to be credible, not perfect, but definitely on the right track.

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Alfred Lehmberg 17 hours ago

+Maharajji NKB  The 9 points of fact beginning this thread are not diluted for the retelling by any means and are "talking points," Sir, only to those who cannot refute them adequately. There was grievous and unrepentant abuse, in my opinion. A deliberate attempt to put the mental health of another in your care at risk is nothing short of unconscionable and no mere "mistake." I suggest craven psychopathy or blithe incompetence seems likely at the root of this... nothing else make a presentable sense. Like many others, I find Hopkins' and Jacobs' research to be a wholly discredited exercise at best or, at worst, a clear and present danger to the mental health of persons standing in as research subjects... then on to a lay humanity hungry for constructive truth but finding its fetid ersatz in Jacobs. The unsupported unsupportable, producing nothing but an unnamed loathing and undefined dread so, definitely, on the wrong track.   Waiter!

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loden greeneyes

12:06 AM

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+Alfred Lehmberg  Oh not this again!  "Bill and Nancy Birnes"=opportunistic money makers and likely disinformationists.  "Gary Haden"=debunker of all things ufological. "Jack Brewer"= debunker of all things ufological and a believer in MILABs only scenarios. "Jeremy Vaeni"=member of the abusive Krishna Murthi cult, which he advertised on his websites and a Whitley Streiber suckup. "Jeff Ritzmann"=admitted to hypnoitizing other abductees in his support group and writes about encounters with a "shroudman" who trespasses onto his property and into his home. "Whitley Streiber"= admitted that he has a "hard time" telling reality from imagination and has claimed to be anally-raped by gray aliens who he also meditated with at his NY cabin. "Tyler Kokjohn"=a scientist last known working on a cure for Alzheimers Disease and a ufological debunker who enjoys the ufo ghetto hanging out with his buddies Vaeni and Ritzmann.

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Alfred Lehmberg

9:08 AM

 

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Uh huh... only, none of these people collects soiled undergarments moldering in a cardboard box under the auspices of examination which they otherwise admit will never be examined. None of these people suggest that space aliens can be defeated by the cheap locks of Medieval torture devices worn over a subject's genitals.  None of these people suggested that a person "in their care" had a serious psychological condition requiring massive therapy and psychotropic drugs.

On Brewer: UFOs and the accouterments of same are a cataloged profundity in seven categories of compelling evidence. This extant truth is in no way respected by communities both scientific or educated apart from science. This lack of respect translates to aggregate subject shunning, abject inattention, and a serious dearth of acceptable oversight of persons involved with UFO research. Brewer does not write a facile debunkery of subjects ufological... he points out the lack of scientific progressiveness, the intellectual silliness associated, and most importantly the degraded safety, therefore, of the research subjects involved. This is not an attack on the ufological milieu, it is a defense of the fair, balanced, scientific and ethical exploration of it.  This is just to start, eh?